I’ve started this Topic to bring together some recent conversations here and on Biking in Dunedin regarding the proposed Albany Street Cycleway.
@Duncan suggested that we might be better developing a cycle path along the Leith instead:
In reply:
I’ve often thought that this would be a much better option too. Albany St would suck for many reasons, particularly glass and cars. Where is the DCC at with this? And is there an opportunity for them to pivot if we present a much better idea?
This has been part of the overall Tertiary precinct plan for quite a while now. I recall discussing it with the DCC probably 4-5 years ago.
The three big players, University, and Polytech presumably tried to alignment on their long term plan and vision for the precinct, but given the very different priorities amongst those groups, I find it hard to believe a route through the University and Polytech (and possibly even ORC land) would work. Plus Waka Kotahi running out of money again and changing direction stopped this happening sooner.
I don’t have any issue with Albany Street if done correctly but the intersections will almost certainly be the problem as per usual.
Cheers,
Jon
I love how you downplay the University plans as “very different priorities”, ie “No cycling on Campus/University”. There are apparently still those within OU who are strongly anti-cycling to the point where cars/trucks are allowed in some areas but not bicycles, go figure. Until that mindset is changed, any cycle lanes will have to skirt the Campus rather than follow the safest routes.
That is the rub, huh? It will be an unsatisfying compromise unless we get it away from the road.
That whole area will suck for biking until it changes. How ingrained is that idea? Coming in naively, I do wonder if it originated with a single person and just remains as the ‘status quo’. Or is it truly ingrained in several individuals who hold a lot of power?
Does anyone know someone high up in OU who might be willing to discuss / negotiate about this?
My conversations with the person who is in charge of transport around the campus say it is not the case they are anti cycling. While they do not want cycles through the middle of the campus, a connection along Leith street at the back of the clocktower and a St David St connection one side and Union St connection on the other to the Leith St route are quite doable in his opinion. These would require two new cycle bridges over the Leith, which are needed anyway to increase pedestrian capacity.
@steve, you mentioned once you had had a conversation with someone relevant at the uni about this and they didn’t have a problem with bikes. It would be interesting to understand where/who/why the perception of the uni being comes from.
My disappointment with the Albany and Uni district is that if the whole area was considered as an LTN and the right measures put in to stop certain streets being used as a thru route, it would not only be a safe area for cyclists and pedestrians, but a much nicer place overall.
The consultation process has started: Albany Street Connection - Dunedin City Council
What a missed opportunity to do something better than rip out trees and carparks for a contentious strip of cycleway. How much better would it have been to make it a shared street with a low speed limit and traffic measures to ensure it isn’t used as a motorist’s shortcut.
Agree, loss off trees is a shame. But it is a bit of a fait accompli so we need to try and get best result. So strong feedback will be vital. Come on SPOKES this is your chance to do something and mobilise your membership. Some thoughts:-
)Great points, Matt!
Yup, it certainly is. Why not invite them here to all get on the same page? It would be brilliant if we all worked together on this.
Good points.
Why would you take it through to George St. Where is the destination of these cyclists?..the new cycle lanes they they say are going on George St or the Great King St footpath?
If Leith St is changed to one way you won’t be able to cycle from the St Andrew St intersection to the University on a quiet St. This would be a huge loss!
So much to say on this. In my feedback I questioned the point of the cycle path: It links to the west to… nothing. No full network plan has been proposed. If built it will become yet another fragment of infrastructure that will be used as an example of how cycle paths are a waste of money. They need to reconsider the approach: Slow the traffic on all the streets of Dunedin and focus changes on making it clear that all streets (apart from selected arterial routes) are principally for people, not private cars. If any examples are needed, look at most European cities. And start by reducing parking! If building a cycle path is a given, it must be shown as part of a city-wide network, which has not been demonstrated. Leith St being one-way is a huge issue. Matt and I clearly put our views on side-roads being one-way vs modal filters to Simone, which have been completely ignored.
Well, do you think that they might be swayed if is the opinion of a large swath of cyclists and the like?
Also the ODT might be very interested in hearing that a sizeable and representative bunch of cyclists don’t want a cycle way, and that their opinion is being disregarded.
@Duncan - reckon we could drum up a bit of fire from the cycling Facebook mob? We could do with a rapid recruitment and a poll hosted here.
This is pretty much exactly what I’ve been proposing. Widening or preferably replacing the two very narrow pedestrian bridges would also allow service vehicles to go through when necessary. They’d need droppable bollards of course.
I think we’re all on the same page with this. The concepts have not been done with real consideration for what the road is like who are the people who might cycle there. The road has little heavy traffic, is already quite slow moving, and most of that traffic is, and can be further limited to, destination traffic rather than through traffic. The users will generally be staff and students of the University, and probably plenty of e-bikes. Mostly confident cyclists who wish to cycle efficiently. While it might be nice to appeal to the less confident by making things appear safer, if you do not cater for those who will really use it you are wasting your time. Unnecessary road crossings and waiting at light will not work!
Here is a contact for submissions. It would be good if everyone could put in a submission, and if we do agree that a low speed shared space approach throughout the campus will provide the best long term solution, this is the message we give to them!
Albany Street Connection feedback - Dunedin City Council
There will also be a council or/and regulatory subcommittee meeting where the regulatory changes (parking, one way street) will have to be approved. You could come and speak to your submission here.
I hope this helps,
Simone
Can you find anything about the cycleway design online anymore? They appear to have switched it to consultation about parking and bus routes?
With some of the plans fleshed out and ready for consultation (closing 20th June). I wonder if anybody is interested in a catch up to look at plans in situ? start with a coffee at allpress (outside for COVID ventilation) first. 0930. If we get 4 people could call it quorate. My impressions from heading down their on monday are it is a big wide straight street, putting in a 30km/h and calling it low speed isnt going to change much without significant calming. The intersections at fourth and clyde are dodgy. I am really interested to learn more about the potential of Leith as part of a central city network and i think this needs to be incorporated into submissions to avoid dumb changes. And finally, i dont know why they are trying so hard to reinstate the parking they are taking away…Leave the accessability / disability car parks and bin the rest! Matt 0212365947
Unfortunately I’m working “full time” (Well, 9-2:30) so can’t join.
I don’t think that a big wide street can’t be a quiet street: Key is ensuring that the street is only used for access, not as a through-route. Quite a lot also depends on the paving, things like planters & parklets, raised junctions etc. Albany is park-way there already - it would not take much to take it all the way.
Leith should be a key route, given where it leads. Having this blocked for one way traffic + angled parking + being a one way “gyratory” would be a huge retrograde step
Agree about the parking: this fixation on parking is such a problem and I don’t know how we get around it. There needs to be a steady reduction until it drives behavioural change. But for the moment, one less park = block the scheme. Which is why I firmly believe the only way forward for Dunedin is a blanket 30kph along with traffic calming and enforcement.
I have uploaded my planned feedback, would like any feedback to help and inform me and others as a complex issue the Albany Street connector! It does not address the change of sides of street at the Museum Reserve that Steve has mentioned but when i had a close look at it i couldn’t see a major issue with this. If you want to use any of the ideas in the document then please re-word them a bit before posting in the feedback. Ngaa mihi. Matt
Feedback on Albany.docx (17.6 KB)
I’m wondering if changing parking spaces from unrestricted to P120 or similar could actually encourage more people to drive to the area, given they might feel they might actually have a chance of finding a space that isn’t occupied 24/7 by a student’s car?
(I’m certain that the proposed one-way Leith/Clyde pairing will result in people doing laps looking for a car park. )
